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Poster: kochman Date: Feb 5, 2014 10:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Missoulian Music Review of 5-14-74 show

Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily blame the beer haahaha
Sometimes their "jams" were incoherent, or boring, to a lot of people. I'll shy away from a qualifier like "most"...

Everything they did wasn't gold, in any period.
I'll bring up 5/11/72 Dark Star, which a lot love, and a lot find to be absolutely boring.

Anyhow, I plan on reviewing this show freshly soon, so I'll have a new take on it by then.

This post was modified by kochman on 2014-02-05 18:17:45

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Feb 5, 2014 11:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Missoulian Music Review of 5-14-74 show

I have to agree. Length does not = quality.

(ah, there's a duck even Peyton Manning can appreciate).

To my ears, few jams that go over 20 minutes are able to hold my attention. I just don't have that much time anymore to seriously focus for much longer than that on a single tune. Back in the day a 45 minute Dark Star was a thing to relish and savor. Now, it's good if I run out of Ambien. Now if Jerry is on a special run and really painting a full picture, I can certainly go further, but if it seems like its long just to be long (insert another duck call here), I can't hang (they just keep getting better, don't they?).

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 5, 2014 7:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Missoulian Music Review of 5-14-74 show

It's funny--I was just the opposite...part of why I love 71 is that it was the yr that could supply straight up, short and sweet, Am Beauty and Work Dead style tunes. The bootlegs that existed then, from July (closing of Fillmore) and Aug (Hollywood Pal), plus Nov (Harding Theatre), were ideal.

I never listened to Live Dead in those early formative yrs, and can recall siding w a non HEAD when he said, to a large gathering debating the band, "now, me and my uncle--that's an amazing tune, but 24 minutes of dark star?!? you've got to be kidding me!"

Ironic that I so defend 68 now, when I never listened to Anthem, and didn't know what CypEnv really was about, frankly, til I bought two from the vault ten yrs ago (ie, I didn't know they played the "suite" all thru summer of 68 thru to 69, blah, blah, blah).

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Feb 5, 2014 8:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Missoulian Music Review of 5-14-74 show

Really?!?

By "didn't know what CypEnv really was about," do you just mean you didn't know the historic specifics or you didn't listen to Anthem/CE at all and associate that sound with the band?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 6, 2014 6:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Missoulian Music Review of 5-14-74 show

BOTH; I do recall there was an obscure bootleg that had the dedication to Owlsey, which BTW, was asked about in that 70s trivial quiz you directed us to, and then CE starts up...but it was poor quality.

Otherwise, I had NOTHING; no tapes w the amazing CE--OO--CE sequences, etc., etc. And, I didn't mind at all--I thought of Anthem as far less appealing than Live Dead, which just had a relatively good StSt (but not nearly as good as the one from Aox), since it was live but not, and had NO recognizable songs...back then, we actually thought Alligator was strange and quirky, a mere novelty item. Recall as "defender of the DEAD" I didn't want to have justify kazoos, and the like...

I embraced it all after arriving here and finding out what happened in 67-69...

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Feb 5, 2014 8:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Missoulian Music Review of 5-14-74 show

I have to admit that I mostly skip past any jam that becomes an outer space wandering these days. I loved that stuff back in the day, but somehow it doesn't seem to provide quite the right mood music for, say, cooking dinner. Particularly since I'd mostly be waiting for someone in the house to complain. I can put up with "are they STILL playing that song?" as long as I can answer "yes, and aren't you GLAD?!?" But if "that song" consists heavily of zweeep diddle diddle BWooOOOoooOOO ...


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Poster: kochman Date: Feb 6, 2014 5:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Missoulian Music Review of 5-14-74 show

I agree AR.
My "college days" long behind me, I find myself more and more interested in the rocking, focused jams rather than the super spacey jams.

I think of it on a continuum, basically:
Structure Verse>Focused Jam (such as found between verse in China Cat)> Exploratory Jam (such a Slipknot!)>Spacey Jam...
Now, spacey jam has sub-strata... I love "Space" as seen in the modern format... But, in the earlier days, you often got less structured than even that weirdness.
Once it gets to the point where one or two instruments are dallying about with a only few notes here and there, I lose interest.

@Tell - The above being said, a short PITB from 1971 only pisses me off! At the same time, a 45 minute PITB from 1974 bores me.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 6, 2014 6:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Missoulian Music Review of 5-14-74 show

Well, looks like you and KM are joining up w SDH, in having rejected your childhood love of the jam?

;)

What do you think of it being the age diff? IE, you, right after me, but SDH & KM moreso, experience the 80s/90s, when jams were consistent, highly regulated (albeit worthless, in my view--space, I should say, not really "jams"...hmm, okay, some apples/oranges here...but my pt is they were crappy)...

Bleech...furgit.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Feb 6, 2014 6:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Missoulian Music Review of 5-14-74 show

Well, my own attraction to spacey/cosmic/avante-garde jams with the GD grew out of generally being attracted to everything experimental. In college, we played John Cage and Philip Glass along with GD, King Crimson, etc, and I liked performance art, happenings, anything that felt outside the box and pushing boundaries ... it all went together. Like I've said, I was pro-Seastones. So at the time, I liked that they did Space.

Anthem was also a personal favorite, and I always saw it as pretty quintessential GD. If you'd asked me back then, I'd have seen Space as a continuation of that. I wasn't really aware that they only started Space > Drums in its formalized form in the late '70s.

Nowadays, speaking as a middle-aged mom, I'd have to say that Space > Drums just isn't what I feel like hearing when I'm going about my day. And yeah, I think a lot of that is that there's not much "there" there, except live. It was a ritual, and it was experiential, but that was then (and a different frame of mind) and this is now (and dinner's on the stove.) So I'll skip ahead. The other later-day jamming is part of a song or sequence and I wouldn't skip a jam in that sense.

Long early jams (like Missoula, which I have on a non-DaP copy that I'll re-listen to soon!) are another kettle of cosmic fish; on the whole, they're "better" IMO than Space, and if I have the, er, "space" to enjoy them and focus then, yeah, I do. But if it's 40 minutes ... well, it's not really background music around the house, either. OK, SOMETIMES it is ... but realistically, I'll skip in the sense of postponing listening to it until I can really pay some attention. Or I mean to postpone until later, and then I forget :-)